So he's not only experienced - but also very well qualified. So every woman everywhere wants a guy who’s confident, who’s charismatic, who’s dominant, who has a sense of humor. [Angel Donovan]: Yeah, and you know, the whole Confucian angle has a big link to the 'face concept', you know, and it’s a really important topic, so what you have to understand when it comes to Asian women is face. [Angel Donovan]: The thing is this also gets a little bit hyped, I think, the topic of face. For example, the advice that you can never win a debate, and the reason being even if you won the debate, you’ve now shamed this guy in front of all his peers and friends. Like if you think in China, they usually have these… You just sort of stick your face out there and you’re just meeting with your vibe.
This was a great discussion that both David and I enjoyed, as we've both been living and dating in Asia for many years. Certainly when I first went to China, it was always the big thing, face, which I think it can also be translated to things that happen in the West as well, that face exists in the West as well, it’s just that it’s something, I mean for me, that happens more like you see more of it or it’s more noticeable in the East. The hottest girls are usually with rich dudes who are buying bottles, and the typical Chinese club is just tables after tables after tables and a tiny dance floor. [David Tian]: And the Chinese guys are playing dice and drinking, because they don’t dance. [David Tian]: And the rook switches places with the king. Now, I think the other angle is that the signs that you’re reading from girls like these bitch signs like you were just talking about and other signs you get from the women in Asia sometimes can be very easily misinterpreted if you don’t understand the culture, if you don’t understand the kind of the situation you’re standing in. When I first started doing this in China, I’d been trained in America, then when I went over I didn’t escalate very much and I felt like I wasn’t getting anywhere. But once she accepts your presence, you can basically start cave manning at that point.
And he's from Aura Dating, he's based in Singapore, and interestingly, he's also known as Dr. And once you’re in, it really just opens up much easier, especially in Asia, because it’s just a lot more about peer approval and because of this whole focus on face. So I might as well give this a shot, and if I get slapped then I’ll know I went too far.
Date, which is kind of like the Hitch of Singapore. He's been a lot in the news there and everything, and he even has some people kind of follow him around sometimes, so that’s kind of a funny twist right there. [Laughs] So I started doing that, and then they just…
He's a doctor (Ph D) of Asian studies and was a professor at National University of Singapore for Philosophical Psychology and Asian Philosophy. So when I’m talking to them they look down or they’ll look away, or they'll do the shy thing or they’ll look disinterested.
So he has a really good academic, rigorous background into the whole area of Asian culture and psychology, and that's something that he's used within his dating coaching business, which has helped him. Then I put my arm around them, and suddenly they kind of look at me sheepishly but then they look back down, and I can just start doing stuff and I don’t get any resistance. I’d never seen this happen in Michigan.” But it was a lot of just understanding the way that… You do see this sometimes in the West, and of course when we talk about Western dating you have to lead and all of this, but it just becomes really, really important in Asia because you’re never going to get the girl who kind of like takes the situation in hand.
In this Dating Skills Podcast episode we dig into the cultural aspects of dating. [Angel Donovan]: Yeah, so that's kind of how we know each other as well, because we’ve been in China and Asia for a while. And one other thing I just thought I should really add is that you’re ethnic Chinese. The Vietnamese culturally are quite close to the Chinese, but the Filipino is an interesting mix of a lot of different cultures down there in Southeast Asia. They would just try to be logical and rational and look at the issues. So if you do do something like that wrong when you’re with a girl, I think it gives her reasons not to see you again or not to continue the relationship. I mean, I always think it’s good to look at some kind of practical example, right? So I found this to be especially true in Japan and Korea and in Singapore, and less so much in China but it’s still there, that she’s going to be very sensitive if other people are looking or watching. [David Tian]: So if you’re drawing attention to yourself, so for instance, the pickup in Top Gun that Tom Cruise did. [David Tian]: He grabs the microphone and starts singing, and the entire bar stares at her and the guy’s singing, you know, maybe this would be cool in the West and they think, “Oh, it’s just so sweet.” In Asia, you would basically be committing social suicide to draw that kind of attention to a girl. So, I mean, one of the situations you kind of want to avoid is where lots of people are basically looking at them and looking at you interacting with them. [Angel Donovan]: And in some places it’s not normal to just walk up to people and approach them. I mean, this isn’t totally relevant to the whole of China anymore, but when I first got to Shanghai in 2003, I remember approaching one girl, and you know, I approached many and this actually repeated itself many times, and walking next to her in the street I just start talking to her, which is completely unknown, and people start looking at her, right? So the first rule of that is like, if you’re going to talk to someone in the street—and I think Shanghai is okay these days, but some of the other towns in China which aren’t quite as modernized—you probably don’t want to do it when there's a lot of people around. Do we have to ask our parents for permission to talk to people now? And this is true I think everywhere in the world, but I think it’s especially true in Asia. [Angel Donovan]: Yeah, I totally agree with this, and it’s kind of interesting because I’ve been in Asia for the last five, six… And the last year I’ve spent in New York and London most of the time. I guess like tied to face is the whole social value and community factor and how Asians tend to move around more in groups.
[Angel Donovan]: Hey, this is Angel Donovan at Dating Skills Review with Dating Skills Podcast. [David Tian]: Yeah, it’s pretty cool too because you’ve had quite a bit of experience in Asia as well, so it’s really nice to be able to talk to a guy who understands the issues that are unique to this part of the world. And there's just a lot of bored-looking Chinese girls sitting around the couch. [David Tian]: Or those five-minute interactions, you exchange numbers, just totally down to meet up – as soon as she turns around, those guys can be in her face, the girls can be looking at her like, “You just talked to a random foreigner.” So I don’t mean this to scare any guys off from approaching at clubs in China or at tables, but it is a challenge, like they’re designed in order to ward off random people approaching them, sort of like on a chessboard when they do that, what’s that called? That's sort of designed to protect the women and for there to be an intimidating presence there. So like in particular, one of the areas I found is like where you don’t feel that the girl’s responding to you, you don’t feel that anything is really going on and it’s not moving forward, because she’s not really giving these signs to you. Are there other kinds of signs and indicators of interest to use that are different from the West? So you put your arm around her shoulder, you bring her in and you just lead, lead, lead.
Today we have David Tian, who is also known as the Asian Rake. [Angel Donovan]: [Laughs] [David Tian]: [Laughs] But even if you’re the hottest guy, you approach that group, because of face, because of social circle pressure, she really can’t pay you any attention. And the key there is, just like with any long-term strategy with any guy who’s going to be doing this for longer than a few months, is that you really need to be building a social that has access, will give you access to cool guys who know hot girls. And so I thought, “Well, I’ve got nothing to lose,” because I’m not getting anywhere waiting for what I then thought of as IOI, because I wasn’t getting any of those.